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Crazy Until It's Not: Startups, Venture Capital & Big Ideas

My firstminute | Jeremy Zimmer, UTA

June 08, 2020 • firstminute capital • Season 2 • Episode 12

0:00 | 1:00:33

Do entrepreneurs need talent agents like movie stars?

Is the future of the entertainment industry equity based?

How do you become a better leader?

These are just a few of the questions Jeremy Zimmer answers in his episode of my firstminute from June 2020.

Jeremy Zimmer is the Chief Executive Officer and a co-founder of UTA. One of the industry’s leading agents for decades, he has been instrumental in establishing UTA as one of the world’s pre-eminent talent agencies with a reputation for its artist-first focus. He oversees more than 1,200 agents, executives and employees globally.

After rising through the ranks as a talent agent, Zimmer co-founded UTA in 1991 and was named CEO in 2012. Since then, he’s led the company’s remarkable evolution into one of the world’s leading talent and entertainment companies through a series of ambitious acquisitions and expansions across news, speakers, content creation, music, esports, digital talent and sports spaces.

From fabled Hollywood family to super-agent to multi-hyphenate entertainment leader, Zimmer has helped guide the careers of some of the most influential names in entertainment today and personally represents artists such as Bryan Cranston, Chance the Rapper, DJ Khaled, Chelsea Handler, Kevin Hart, Anthony Hopkins, Don Cheadle, Tyra Banks, Ryan Seacrest, Noah Baumbach, Brian Robbins, and YG.

During the session, we explored everything from how Jeremy got started in his career, to his leadership advice in times of crisis, to his passion for the Arts, to his views on the future of media, entertainment and more.

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First minute capital is $100 million

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seed stage fund sector agnostic and proudly backed

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by a number of top technology founders, including 30 unicorn founders.

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The My First Minute series is about learning from prior

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generations of successful entrepreneurs and sharing that insights and lessons

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with the next generation of tech founders.

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The series has two focuses.

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One, How They Got Started in their careers

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that first minute, if you will.

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And two, how they see the world today

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and what they're most excited about.

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My name is Spencer Cooney.

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I'm a co-founder and general partner at First Minute Capital.

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And today I'm speaking with Jeremy Zimmer.

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We are thrilled to have Jeremy here with us.

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Jeremy, thank you so much for joining.

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Really, really appreciate it.

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Today, I think, is particularly interesting

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because of some of the huge intersecting trends that Jeremy

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sits really at the forefront of and the lots of ground we've got to cover.

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I think everyone knows a both about Jeremy's background,

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but also ETF itself and one of the bedrock Hollywood agencies.

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And Jeremy co-founded UK in 91 and has been CEO for many years

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and really kind of leading many both the acquisition strategy, but also

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being at the forefront

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of some of the stuff that across the media entertainment industry.

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So, Jeremy, we're thrilled to have you.

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I'll save the many names that the Jeremy

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Jeremy represents personally, but I think that's something of itself

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that's super interesting of how involved he is with the artists.

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But I guess maybe just

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kick off Jeremy.

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How how has how is Hollywood been since March?

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What's it what's it felt like the last couple of months?

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Well, I think Hollywood has been

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particularly impacted.

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I mean, everybody has been particularly impacted by sort of an unparallel old

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series of, you know, century

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altering events between between Ovid

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and the we'll call it the Black Lives Matter

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initiatives or awakening

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and just the sort of financial upheaval that has come as a result of it.

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It's been it's been a particularly a

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wild time for us, and that's all set against a backdrop

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of incredible political instability and anxiety.

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So Hollywood has been challenged because,

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you know, we've shut down for the most part,

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pretty much every element of Hollywood, which all include music.

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Music in has been has been grounded.

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So there's very little production, almost no production,

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there's no live performance.

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And we're all waiting for the opportunity for people

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to get back out there and make things

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and take advantage of like you have this double experience,

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you have no one making anything, an incredible thirst for media.

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You know, people have never consumed as much television as they are now,

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you know, and music is exploding in terms of streaming.

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And there's such an incredible appetite

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for media, yet there's very little ability to make a lot of stuff right now.

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So it's an interesting time.

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Cause, well, I'd love to come on to some of that consolidation

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of that streaming world and obviously come back to that.

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And you made a important announcement

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last week with that, with the foundation, but just just with your

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the talent that you work with what what happens to very creative people

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when they are

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forced to stay in the same place for a long period of time and not do that

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that, you know, have the outlet for that day to day job as it's have you.

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Have there been interesting soul searching or discussions

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or how does how does creative talent react

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to being sort of headed in for this unprecedented period?

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Well, it's.

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Really, you know, some creative talent just shut down.

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So you have some people who, you know, are constantly on the grind.

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They're constantly working there constantly.

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And writers are writing.

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But but so you've got some artists who are just

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using it as an opportunity to sit and write and do their next thing.

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You've have some actors who've been working and working,

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working for the first time are sort of going, wow, this is a time

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I can be reconnect with my family.

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Take it easy, you know?

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You know, maybe I don't have to work.

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You know, I'm not from either making something or promoting something so

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they can sort of relax a little bit on social media.

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I think there's the full spectrum of things.

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And then people have been really emotionally distraught and that emotional

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dislocation impacts the way people think about working and creating.

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So we have some clients like Kevin Hart.

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He never stops, he never stops, never stops, never stops.

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And he's kept going.

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And then you have other clients who really go into a much more deeply sort of,

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you know, meditative, contemplative time

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where they want to enjoy the peace and the quiet a little bit.

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So it is like all people, a spectrum of of reactions.

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Of course.

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And we'll definitely talk about some of the opportunities

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you think you can, you know, those conversations with those clients

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and what opportunities you're putting them into.

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But maybe just to go back for a moment, you mentioned that

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just in what we were speaking before, kind of creative backgrounds.

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And your mother being a writer and many people in your industry

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did grow up in a Hollywood milieu.

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You spoken very fascinatingly about some of the atypical experiences

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you had of whether it was working in a gas station in Malibu at 14 or,

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you know, seminal moment where you were where you had stabbed when you were 19

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and not those early years clearly sound like it were very formative for you.

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Was it

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do you reflect on them a lot?

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Does it does it do you feel that those were very

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they shaped

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you in a way that still defines you or how would you kind of think of that

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that unusual entry that you had into before you started in the William

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Morris mail room?

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How does

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is it something that you think about a lot?

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I mean, I spend a

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I don't want to say a lot of time in self-reflection, but

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I try to be conscious of

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what I'm doing and how I'm reacting to things in my life.

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And then if I find a reaction to be sort of

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confusing to me

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or upsetting to me, I try to go, what's going on here?

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You know, what's what's the reason?

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Why am I feeling so?

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Why am I reacting this way in this moment to this experience?

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And I try to get contextualize it.

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And and a lot of it has to do with, you know, I hate these.

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Like, I like the idea of staring at my childhood endlessly is so

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is really boring to me.

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And I really advise people to try to get rid of their story

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because your story can become this sort of giant

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bundle of crap that you drag around behind you.

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But I'm very grateful for elements of of my life.

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You know, I'm grateful that my parents were my mom was creative.

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My mom was a writer and is a writer and is very creative.

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And, you know, it was a very unique mother

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and therefore, it was a very unique childhood.

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And it was very

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you know, there are elements of it that were really painful and frightening.

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But the appreciation I got for the journey of the artist

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is special

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and reflects itself in what I do today.

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And and as much as, you know, I was a terrible student, I'm sure today

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if I were in school, they would have slapped me

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on some sort of medication in like the fourth grade.

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And I would have been

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I would still be out a little bit, but but somehow or other, I had always had

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an incredible appreciation for stories and storytelling.

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You know, I could write. I love reading. I would read.

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I just loved great storytelling.

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So I always had an appreciation for that.

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And that shows up today in my career in a really positive way.

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But there and there are other elements of it.

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You know, I was working at a gas station at 14 years old and, you know, doing

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lots of unconventional things early in my life.

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And that gave me a sense of independence and fortitude and grit.

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And you know,

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things don't really things don't really rattle me

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and my mom, my my family is always like, why doesn't this bother you?

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What's going on?

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I'm like, I just have we're going to figure this out, you know?

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And so that also a sense of fortitude and and

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and calm in the storm

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has always been something I've I've been able to muster.

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And I think that's helpful to me also, particularly in elite

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theater, particularly in difficult, complicated times like we're in.

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Of course.

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And I'm sure that sense of independence

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and fortitude and grit is something that your artists feel

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that gives you a degree of empathy that is, I'm sure, unusual.

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You know, it's it's interesting you bring up empathy,

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because actually, me, that was very hard to come by.

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So you're right in your on.

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I mean, empathy is one of the most important characteristics,

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I think, for people to develop.

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But, you know, in my situation,

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the way I was raised, I was like, you know,

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I don't know if I'm allowed to swear, but my whole thing was, hey, you know what?

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You got your problems. I got mine.

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Go f yourself.

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You know, I got to take care of me.

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So that was a big part of that.

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You know, as I was growing up, that was my thing was like, I'm in it for me.

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I got to take care of me because no one's going to take care of me.

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So the ability to develop empathy came much later in life

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and it was really, really important for me because without it,

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you know, relationships can be very hollow.

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Well, to tie those two things together of of empathy

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being a key component of relationships, but also the storytelling

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that you alluded to earlier, and I've heard I think it was on your Bob

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Pitman chat podcast that you spoke about storytelling, being empathy

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with no obligation, which I thought was a really lovely expression.

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What, what how do storytellers create

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empathy?

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Well, I think what a you know, a good storyteller,

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Ella, really helps you understand

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the emotional journey of the character.

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And even if they're doing

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things that seem somewhat aberrational, that you have some sort of connection

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and empathy for them and understanding and

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and you're rooting for them even though they're doing things,

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you know, seem like, well, how how could this guy behave this way?

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I just finished watching a miniseries, which is based on

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what is pretty much my favorite book, which is called I Know This Much Is True.

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And they just finished the miniseries.

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It's a six part or starring Mark Ruffalo.

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And I was just I'm so moved by that story and that thing.

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And you meet this guy who's just so angry

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and so incapable

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of having empathy for anyone other than his brother.

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And he's just like this.

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He's just so furious.

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And ultimately, what this story's about for me and why I love it

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so much is how he develops empathy and how he's able to ultimately find peace

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through empathy and through forgiveness.

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You know, and the relationship between empathy and forgiveness is so important

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and so well demonstrated in that book

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and such an important part of,

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you know, my own journey, because I, you know,

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I can create a pretty good reason to be pissed off at pretty much everyone.

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And I can hold on to that story for as long as I want to it

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and allow it to make me as uncomfortable as I want it to.

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And until I'm ready to develop some empathy and develop

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some forgiveness, I'm just not going to feel very good.

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So it's I think that's an important part of my journey

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as a leader is the ability to stop needing to be right.

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Yeah.

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It's, you know, it's like seek to understand rather than to be understood.

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And when I'm doing that, I'm in my best place.

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And when I want to make sure everybody understands exactly

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what I'm saying, I'm usually not as good an outcome.

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And it feels also like the the capacity as a leader to empathize

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has never been more important in the last three or four months.

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And whether it's it comes to brings to mind how you Jeff

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Immelt was saying a few weeks ago that this is the period of time

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where we're understanding that the situation of those that you

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work within, those around you is just ever more important.

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But it it does I mean, the

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the kind of playbook for leadership at the moment, you'll see

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one of the most interesting companies in the world

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that the playbook for leadership with all of these

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these strands, societal strands that are coming together.

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I mean, is it is it

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are that other CEOs that you look to kind of code

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vice or how how what's what's it been like kind of weathering these

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these storms from the position of a CEO in a mad world?

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Yeah. You know, it's funny, we don't

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I don't

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this it's a lonely world now.

00:14:08:12 - 00:14:12:07
But, you know, I don't necessarily I'm not reaching out to say to other CEOs,

00:14:12:07 - 00:14:16:09
although I do once in a while, we sort of commiserate about stuff. But,

00:14:17:16 - 00:14:19:04
you know, it's a very it's a unique time.

00:14:19:04 - 00:14:22:07
I've never certainly never led through anything like this.

00:14:22:07 - 00:14:23:13
I don't think anyone has.

00:14:23:13 - 00:14:27:10
And, you know, in a fast growing company like we have been,

00:14:27:10 - 00:14:31:06
we've been playing offense and little defense, but mostly

00:14:31:14 - 00:14:35:02
figuring out the next acquisition, the next opportunity.

00:14:35:02 - 00:14:38:11
How do we integrate the last acquisition while moving on to the next one?

00:14:38:19 - 00:14:40:03
Growth, growth, growth.

00:14:40:03 - 00:14:43:03
And now we're really looking at, you know, how do we play defense?

00:14:43:03 - 00:14:45:23
How do we make sure we keep our people set safe?

00:14:46:06 - 00:14:49:10
What are the, you know, important cultural and social initiative

00:14:49:23 - 00:14:52:16
that we have to integrate into our into our business?

00:14:53:04 - 00:14:55:21
And how do we make sure that there's

00:14:55:21 - 00:14:58:16
a recovery ahead

00:14:59:12 - 00:15:02:15
in terms of a financial recovery ahead where our people

00:15:02:15 - 00:15:06:02
and our colleagues will believe that there's a reason to keep believing?

00:15:06:17 - 00:15:09:25
And that's what we you know, those are the things we're focusing on.

00:15:09:25 - 00:15:14:15
So and at the same time, we've had some pretty significant dislocation.

00:15:14:15 - 00:15:17:17
Our competitors, two of our competitors,

00:15:17:17 - 00:15:22:26
are in a much bigger state of flux.

00:15:22:26 - 00:15:25:17
And so there are opportunities to play offense.

00:15:25:28 - 00:15:29:26
And how do you play offense and go, you know, spend money

00:15:29:26 - 00:15:32:00
to recruit new colleagues when at the same time

00:15:32:00 - 00:15:35:12
you're asking your current colleagues to make sacrifices of their salary?

00:15:35:12 - 00:15:38:28
So bunch of complex factors

00:15:38:28 - 00:15:41:27
that I'm trying to weave into a narrative

00:15:41:27 - 00:15:44:14
that I can believe in and

00:15:44:29 - 00:15:48:28
and sell and make sure people stand behind course.

00:15:49:01 - 00:15:51:17
And actually, as a final prior

00:15:52:04 - 00:15:56:05
speaker name drops some off and sort of WPP was saying

00:15:56:05 - 00:16:00:11
he and the whole role of acquisitions he thinks has now changed dramatically.

00:16:00:11 - 00:16:03:24
And obviously he's was seen as pioneering a lot of that, at least in the UK in

00:16:04:23 - 00:16:07:05
the beginning of his journey.

00:16:07:05 - 00:16:08:09
Do you feel?

00:16:08:09 - 00:16:10:02
Well, maybe I share the more simple question.

00:16:10:02 - 00:16:12:15
I was making acquisitions

00:16:13:10 - 00:16:16:10
this does it does a post-COVID acquisition are very different

00:16:16:10 - 00:16:18:13
to a pre-COVID acquisition sort of how does your

00:16:19:20 - 00:16:23:09
what's your lens on that?

00:16:23:09 - 00:16:27:19
Well, I think in a post-COVID acquisition,

00:16:28:04 - 00:16:31:20
well, we'll certainly open our eyes more to

00:16:32:25 - 00:16:34:24
is this acquisition

00:16:34:24 - 00:16:37:24
going to, you know, what's the

00:16:37:24 - 00:16:39:28
immediate effect and benefit

00:16:40:11 - 00:16:44:05
to the company in terms of profitability?

00:16:45:07 - 00:16:49:25
You know, right now we're looking to make we're not as you know,

00:16:49:26 - 00:16:52:11
we need to make impact acquisition lens

00:16:53:01 - 00:16:55:28
right now.

00:16:55:28 - 00:16:59:00
And we'll also look at each one through a much

00:16:59:12 - 00:17:02:12
through a much inter social lens.

00:17:02:12 - 00:17:06:29
You know, what is the history of this company from a diverse point of view?

00:17:06:29 - 00:17:08:27
And are they going to fit into

00:17:10:08 - 00:17:12:12
into the culture of the company immediately?

00:17:12:12 - 00:17:13:13
We used to it, you know,

00:17:13:13 - 00:17:17:00
in our first several acquisitions, we basically thought our culture

00:17:17:01 - 00:17:22:11
so strong that it will, which it will assume and and take over

00:17:22:18 - 00:17:26:16
the culture of the organizations, which has been true.

00:17:26:16 - 00:17:27:23
But that's a journey.

00:17:27:23 - 00:17:30:16
And I think right now we'll probably,

00:17:30:16 - 00:17:33:16
probably look to make sure that the companies we align with fit

00:17:33:27 - 00:17:36:18
more immediately into our

00:17:38:17 - 00:17:39:18
social initiatives,

00:17:39:18 - 00:17:42:10
our diversity initiatives, our inclusivity initiatives.

00:17:42:27 - 00:17:46:09
But I really want to come back to the culture point, because I've heard

00:17:46:09 - 00:17:49:09
you speak fascinating about it, and it's obviously at the forefront

00:17:49:09 - 00:17:54:05
of a lot of people dialing in in terms of the cultures of that of that scale up.

00:17:54:05 - 00:17:56:15
So startups or indeed the companies that they run,

00:17:57:04 - 00:18:01:21
but maybe just as a I would love to touch on the UK

00:18:01:24 - 00:18:03:26
Foundation announcement and kind of how it came to be

00:18:03:26 - 00:18:04:03
and what

00:18:04:03 - 00:18:07:28
and what you hope to come from it because it seems like a brilliant initiative.

00:18:07:28 - 00:18:12:06
Well, really what what came out of it was a kind of a humbling

00:18:13:23 - 00:18:15:19
a humbling

00:18:16:09 - 00:18:20:14
awareness that was brought to the fore by our colleagues.

00:18:20:14 - 00:18:26:29
So after the beginning of the protests, a number of our colleagues

00:18:26:29 - 00:18:30:07
came forward and said, you know, we really don't feel comfortable here.

00:18:30:07 - 00:18:33:06
We don't really feel like that you've seen us.

00:18:33:07 - 00:18:37:07
I don't you know, you haven't we haven't gotten the kind of support

00:18:37:13 - 00:18:40:11
and acknowledgment

00:18:40:11 - 00:18:44:26
that we as people of color are going through an enormously difficult time.

00:18:44:26 - 00:18:48:15
And how come you don't aren't reaching out to specific fully understanding

00:18:48:15 - 00:18:51:19
how this moment, what this moment means to us?

00:18:51:19 - 00:18:54:00
And, you know,

00:18:54:00 - 00:18:55:19
and more importantly,

00:18:55:19 - 00:18:58:26
we really want you to know how we feel about being a colleague at this company

00:18:58:26 - 00:18:59:29
that we don't feel seen,

00:18:59:29 - 00:19:03:10
that we love the culture, but we don't feel the culture is of us

00:19:03:24 - 00:19:08:07
and we don't feel there are enough faces that we can aspire to.

00:19:08:07 - 00:19:10:19
We don't see in the leadership of the company

00:19:10:19 - 00:19:14:11
that there are people who look like us, who we think we can, that make us

00:19:14:11 - 00:19:17:11
believe we can become a leader in the organization. And

00:19:18:16 - 00:19:21:00
you know, that that was a that was

00:19:21:02 - 00:19:24:02
a, you know, because I always feel like, are you kidding?

00:19:24:02 - 00:19:27:04
I'm the greatest guy among liberal guy.

00:19:27:04 - 00:19:30:03
I've, you know, hired a number of, you know, division

00:19:30:03 - 00:19:32:12
heads who are African American division heads.

00:19:32:12 - 00:19:34:28
And I think I'm doing everything right.

00:19:34:28 - 00:19:37:10
I, you know, give to the right causes.

00:19:37:10 - 00:19:40:08
And I must be a good guy.

00:19:40:08 - 00:19:42:19
And it really it really hurt.

00:19:43:05 - 00:19:47:02
And I really realized that, you know, sort of letting it all

00:19:47:02 - 00:19:50:29
live in the H.R.

00:19:50:29 - 00:19:53:14
part of the company

00:19:53:14 - 00:19:56:01
is not really serving

00:19:56:01 - 00:19:59:09
the initiative as well as we should.

00:20:00:20 - 00:20:03:25
So, you know, we sat and listened and talked

00:20:03:25 - 00:20:09:09
and people were very vocal and very angry about some of the some of the cues

00:20:09:09 - 00:20:12:06
we missed and some of the opportunities we haven't provided.

00:20:12:28 - 00:20:15:09
And we made a commitment to to change

00:20:15:09 - 00:20:18:17
and to offer a much more bold and inclusive

00:20:19:28 - 00:20:21:26
program in order to

00:20:21:26 - 00:20:25:23
change the culture of the company and make it more inclusive and diverse

00:20:27:22 - 00:20:28:21
kind of how it was.

00:20:28:21 - 00:20:33:14
And it's hard and it's hard and I am on you know, I listen, I'm on phone calls

00:20:33:14 - 00:20:36:03
where I'm listening to

00:20:37:06 - 00:20:41:15
requests, strong, urgent urgings.

00:20:41:15 - 00:20:44:17
And some of it feels, are you kidding?

00:20:45:01 - 00:20:46:02
Really?

00:20:46:02 - 00:20:48:15
No one ever did that for me.

00:20:48:15 - 00:20:49:02
You know what?

00:20:49:02 - 00:20:52:09
I was born a white man in the United States of America,

00:20:52:09 - 00:20:54:16
and that gave me a significant headstart.

00:20:55:14 - 00:20:57:19
So we have to do things differently.

00:20:58:14 - 00:21:01:19
Well, it's I commend the initiative enormously.

00:21:01:19 - 00:21:04:23
And for what it's worth, you know, I remember when your 2017

00:21:04:23 - 00:21:08:12
internal memo all around inclusiveness went went pretty viral globally.

00:21:08:12 - 00:21:12:16
And so I think you're you're sadly seen in the structure of the much more

00:21:13:20 - 00:21:14:10
aware and

00:21:14:10 - 00:21:17:16
conscious CEOs of those of those out there.

00:21:17:16 - 00:21:20:18
But maybe to to change tack a little bit,

00:21:20:18 - 00:21:23:19
Jeremy, I would love to kind of explore the.

00:21:24:27 - 00:21:28:00
The. World of the intersection of talent and celebrity

00:21:28:00 - 00:21:32:03
and kind of whether it's tackle ventures and it seems fraught with challenges,

00:21:32:03 - 00:21:34:23
but it seems very exciting and shiny as well.

00:21:35:06 - 00:21:36:20
I don't have many celebrity friends.

00:21:36:20 - 00:21:40:05
I'm hoping this this exchange would change that slowly over the coming years.

00:21:40:05 - 00:21:43:00
But what what do you think?

00:21:43:00 - 00:21:46:29
There are lots of founders on the line who either are exploring opportunities

00:21:46:29 - 00:21:49:19
of working with names across their various verticals.

00:21:50:25 - 00:21:55:19
It is, it seems on the surface, an amazing thing that gives you distribution.

00:21:55:19 - 00:21:56:28
It gives you name recognition.

00:21:56:28 - 00:21:58:09
It is kind of good.

00:21:58:09 - 00:22:00:17
It can be free marketing, etc., etc..

00:22:01:06 - 00:22:04:18
I just what would your advice be to founders

00:22:05:00 - 00:22:07:00
of how to things

00:22:07:27 - 00:22:11:09
how to identify the right talent for that business?

00:22:11:09 - 00:22:13:26
Whatever the scale of that business, whether it's a ten person

00:22:14:03 - 00:22:16:27
stage company or a giant scale up, obviously

00:22:17:04 - 00:22:20:06
you've got new ventures which we can come back to later or.

00:22:20:06 - 00:22:22:04
And then the second part is

00:22:22:04 - 00:22:25:21
if they think they've identified the right price and sort of how to gauge

00:22:26:03 - 00:22:29:11
what's what how to assess the value, like what's quantifiable,

00:22:29:11 - 00:22:33:18
how do you know how to kind of put a put a figure on it?

00:22:33:18 - 00:22:37:01
Like what, what what would you restrict to you use if you're an entrepreneur?

00:22:37:13 - 00:22:39:04
What was that word is we.

00:22:39:04 - 00:22:41:20
Actually risk things and probably

00:22:41:20 - 00:22:45:13
say the word, well, it might be British pronunciation that's ruining it.

00:22:45:13 - 00:22:51:17
I think that the relationship between celebrities and

00:22:52:26 - 00:22:55:11
and startups is is still

00:22:56:11 - 00:22:59:27
in the early innings to really be able to tell.

00:22:59:27 - 00:23:03:01
And there's, you know, there's a few examples

00:23:03:01 - 00:23:07:15
that people point to and go, wow, look at, you know, that's going to always work.

00:23:07:15 - 00:23:10:21
Just give me a Kardashian and a good idea

00:23:10:21 - 00:23:13:09
and I'm heading to the exit.

00:23:13:23 - 00:23:17:10
And it's clearly and obviously not that simple.

00:23:17:22 - 00:23:22:20
And there are a lot of and a lot of the gatekeepers in between

00:23:23:29 - 00:23:28:16
are looking to just appease the need of the client in the moment

00:23:29:05 - 00:23:32:20
and aren't really assessing what is the true value

00:23:32:20 - 00:23:37:08
proposition that can be created if everybody digs in and spends the time?

00:23:37:08 - 00:23:38:16
And then

00:23:39:05 - 00:23:42:17
are these artists really ready, willing and able to spend the time?

00:23:43:01 - 00:23:46:07
And I think those things all have to be assessed.

00:23:46:07 - 00:23:49:25
And if you you know, like if you can't get the guy on the phone

00:23:50:13 - 00:23:55:10
to talk about the company and to talk about that, that's a pretty good sign.

00:23:56:10 - 00:24:00:12
You know, trying not to ignore the easy

00:24:01:19 - 00:24:04:02
the easily seen

00:24:05:20 - 00:24:08:17
warning signs of

00:24:08:17 - 00:24:10:20
somebody who's just looking for a check.

00:24:10:20 - 00:24:14:26
And if they are just looking for a check, which is fine,

00:24:14:26 - 00:24:18:04
then you at least understand that this person's looking for a check.

00:24:18:21 - 00:24:21:03
This is the amount of the check that's going to be required.

00:24:21:13 - 00:24:24:03
Here are the

00:24:24:03 - 00:24:28:08
specific gets that I'll receive as a result of it,

00:24:28:26 - 00:24:32:07
these amount of postings, these amount of appearances, these amount of stuff.

00:24:32:21 - 00:24:35:06
But if somebody really is going to be a partner,

00:24:35:06 - 00:24:37:13
they're really going to be involved.

00:24:37:13 - 00:24:39:15
Then there has to be a real understanding of that.

00:24:39:15 - 00:24:41:17
And how easy are they to get on the phone?

00:24:41:17 - 00:24:43:16
What's the nature of the conversation?

00:24:43:16 - 00:24:48:02
And are they really engaged in what it means to build a company?

00:24:48:03 - 00:24:53:02
No, not they're never going to be as engaged as a CEO or a full time employee.

00:24:53:02 - 00:24:54:01
And you can't expect that.

00:24:54:01 - 00:24:56:20
But you can expect that when they're they're they're there.

00:24:57:14 - 00:24:59:09
You know, when they're listening, they're listening

00:24:59:09 - 00:25:02:06
when they're you know, when when we're talking about product,

00:25:02:06 - 00:25:04:01
they really understand what the product is.

00:25:04:01 - 00:25:10:09
And they have some input as to how and why their brand connects to this product.

00:25:11:01 - 00:25:13:28
And and I think you just have to have your eyes open.

00:25:13:28 - 00:25:18:24
And and the truth of celebrity is it's incredibly intoxicating.

00:25:19:23 - 00:25:20:06
You know, the

00:25:20:06 - 00:25:23:10
truth of celebrity is, you know, you come to L.A.

00:25:23:10 - 00:25:27:00
to meet with someone about

00:25:27:02 - 00:25:30:11
about them becoming a part of your your company

00:25:30:11 - 00:25:34:09
or a spokesman for your product or a partner in events or whatever it is.

00:25:34:09 - 00:25:37:23
And they're funny and engaging.

00:25:37:23 - 00:25:39:25
And and there they are.

00:25:39:25 - 00:25:43:03
And, you know, I know this is going to sound so like dumb, but,

00:25:43:03 - 00:25:46:17
you know, and then you're out to dinner and everybody knows them.

00:25:46:17 - 00:25:49:28
And the flash of this, the pot, you know,

00:25:49:29 - 00:25:53:03
it's it is

00:25:53:09 - 00:25:55:28
you know, it's very exciting and intoxicating.

00:25:55:28 - 00:26:00:13
And people have people for I want to say centuries, decades

00:26:00:22 - 00:26:03:09
have made very, very bad decisions

00:26:04:00 - 00:26:06:09
around the intoxication of celebrity

00:26:07:18 - 00:26:10:09
know, because that's the way it is.

00:26:10:09 - 00:26:12:00
It's fascinating.

00:26:12:00 - 00:26:16:19
And I think often of the dynamic between one of the most interesting things,

00:26:16:19 - 00:26:21:27
I think between the dynamic of technology founders and celebrity, which is that

00:26:21:28 - 00:26:25:29
I said as I sit here in my mum's flat in London, relatively far away from my world.

00:26:26:14 - 00:26:26:28
But this

00:26:28:07 - 00:26:29:05
is how

00:26:29:05 - 00:26:32:22
is is actually you're asking someone to fame

00:26:33:09 - 00:26:36:19
to show a degree of vulnerability as well, because in order for them

00:26:36:19 - 00:26:38:14
to be the right partner and get them on the phone

00:26:38:14 - 00:26:41:05
in the way that you've just articulated, they need to understand

00:26:41:05 - 00:26:41:28
what the business is.

00:26:41:28 - 00:26:45:20
How can they be most maximize what they need to ask questions and understand.

00:26:45:21 - 00:26:49:10
And and if I imagine growing up in a world of not growing up

00:26:49:10 - 00:26:52:24
becoming famous, you inoculate yourself against the real world

00:26:53:01 - 00:26:56:25
and surround yourself by people that probably don't challenge

00:26:56:25 - 00:26:59:21
you as frequently as at least in the early stages in your career.

00:26:59:27 - 00:27:03:12
So so being confronted or approached by a young entrepreneur

00:27:03:12 - 00:27:06:17
or an entrepreneur of any age saying, okay, let's, let's work together.

00:27:06:23 - 00:27:10:15
And the trust element also seems to be really interesting that

00:27:10:16 - 00:27:15:28
that's I imagine when it works, the human chemistry has to be real.

00:27:15:28 - 00:27:17:27
Otherwise, yes.

00:27:17:27 - 00:27:20:29
Otherwise you have to set what are your real expectations?

00:27:20:29 - 00:27:25:08
If your real expectations are to have a dynamic partnership

00:27:25:08 - 00:27:29:05
with someone who's really involved and engaged, and you have to have

00:27:29:05 - 00:27:32:16
that experience before it starts.

00:27:32:16 - 00:27:35:18
That has to be part of the experience of getting to know each other.

00:27:36:07 - 00:27:40:25
And if your expectations are to have a fairly commercial relationship

00:27:40:25 - 00:27:43:06
where you're going to leverage their celebrity in exchange

00:27:43:06 - 00:27:47:03
for some compensation, either, you know, cash, cash, equity,

00:27:47:03 - 00:27:51:00
whatever that is, then know that that's what that is.

00:27:51:08 - 00:27:53:07
And you're not going to get if the guy says

00:27:53:07 - 00:27:55:10
he's going to give you a four, he's going to give you a four.

00:27:55:10 - 00:27:57:11
You're not going to charm him into eight.

00:27:57:22 - 00:27:59:21
If you charm him into six, you did well.

00:27:59:21 - 00:28:03:24
But you're you can't have that expectation and just,

00:28:03:29 - 00:28:08:03
you know, have your eyes wide open, you know, because too many people make

00:28:09:11 - 00:28:12:00
you know, we all make mistakes when intoxicated

00:28:12:00 - 00:28:15:02
and the intoxication of celebrity is no different.

00:28:16:11 - 00:28:18:22
And with on this sort of founder

00:28:18:24 - 00:28:23:15
checklist, that is extremely helpful of making sure that they're engaged.

00:28:23:26 - 00:28:24:29
And if they're in it for the money,

00:28:24:29 - 00:28:27:06
they're in it for the money or the check, as you say.

00:28:27:06 - 00:28:31:17
What other kind of smart questions would founders be asking themselves

00:28:31:24 - 00:28:36:09
with regards to understanding the reach of a celebrity?

00:28:36:09 - 00:28:40:01
Whether and how engaged the fan bases are or,

00:28:40:08 - 00:28:43:26
you know, not just absolute Instagram numbers, but it might be ABC.

00:28:43:26 - 00:28:45:26
You know, and I've heard you speak about D.J,

00:28:45:26 - 00:28:48:18
Khalid, one of your one of your clients and how he's built an amazing

00:28:48:24 - 00:28:49:13
presence, really.

00:28:49:13 - 00:28:53:06
Social media led sort of from the perspective of if there's a fit

00:28:53:12 - 00:28:57:28
and if the human dynamic is right, what should founders be thinking about of

00:28:58:15 - 00:29:03:09
is this is this talent and celebrity in person the right one for my business?

00:29:03:13 - 00:29:05:02
I mean, there's. There's so much more.

00:29:05:02 - 00:29:08:23
And I'm not an expert on this, although we have a team of experts

00:29:09:06 - 00:29:12:13
who are living our what we call our IQ department.

00:29:12:28 - 00:29:17:28
And, you know, we do pretty deep social media audits for brands as well

00:29:17:28 - 00:29:22:10
as for clients to help them understand how deep is that connection?

00:29:22:10 - 00:29:23:28
How engaged is that audience?

00:29:23:28 - 00:29:26:09
Who's the most engaged? Who's the least engaged?

00:29:26:09 - 00:29:29:17
Why is this cohort less engaged in this?

00:29:29:17 - 00:29:31:18
And how do you improve that?

00:29:31:18 - 00:29:37:01
And if you're, you know, you're working really well on Instagram and

00:29:38:10 - 00:29:41:20
then Facebook, but you're, you know, you're nowhere on tick tock.

00:29:41:20 - 00:29:42:13
And if you want to,

00:29:42:13 - 00:29:45:24
you know, engage this audience, you've got to figure out how to work TikTok better.

00:29:46:02 - 00:29:49:29
You know, what are you doing on Pinterest and where are you in the overall thing?

00:29:49:29 - 00:29:52:06
And then how do you what are the levers you have to

00:29:53:06 - 00:29:57:07
pull in order to deepen the connectivity and engagement

00:29:57:16 - 00:30:00:08
and will we do those studies for clients?

00:30:00:08 - 00:30:02:03
And we sit down and we say, hey, here's the truth.

00:30:02:03 - 00:30:04:22
You may have, you know, hundreds of thousands

00:30:04:22 - 00:30:07:22
of followers on Instagram, but frankly, you're not

00:30:07:22 - 00:30:12:21
you can't move the needle enough to be a significant spokesperson.

00:30:13:11 - 00:30:16:07
And here's the things we need to do.

00:30:16:07 - 00:30:19:11
So the IQ team, I like it.

00:30:19:11 - 00:30:20:24
How big is the IQ team for you?

00:30:22:10 - 00:30:22:27
I think they've

00:30:22:27 - 00:30:26:07
got I mean, they'll tell me they have like 12 or 14.

00:30:26:07 - 00:30:28:29
I don't know, there might be 18. They're smart enough.

00:30:29:02 - 00:30:32:20
They're the IQ team, so they're smart enough to have less people than they do.

00:30:33:28 - 00:30:37:11
I guess it sounds like the secret sauce,

00:30:37:11 - 00:30:41:17
the maybe looking forward of towards

00:30:42:05 - 00:30:46:23
trends that you're keeping an eye out for and tying back to the

00:30:46:23 - 00:30:50:09
to the acquisition strategy we were talking about earlier and you've been,

00:30:50:17 - 00:30:54:05
you know, the last few years active across news and content creation and e-sports

00:30:54:05 - 00:30:57:20
and a whole whole spate of acquisitions as well as some JVs

00:30:57:20 - 00:30:59:05
that we might come to as well.

00:30:59:05 - 00:31:03:11
What's what are you looking towards

00:31:04:14 - 00:31:08:02
thematically sector wise in the next in the next couple of years?

00:31:08:02 - 00:31:11:08
What, what what trends in media are you thinking?

00:31:11:08 - 00:31:12:05
That's interesting.

00:31:12:05 - 00:31:14:26
We've got our we need to be position that

00:31:15:09 - 00:31:18:23
in whatever way.

00:31:18:23 - 00:31:22:21
Well, overall, what we're looking what we're looking to do

00:31:24:08 - 00:31:27:22
is continue to

00:31:28:19 - 00:31:31:28
represent and participate

00:31:31:28 - 00:31:36:23
in what's happening in the sort of media media collision,

00:31:37:00 - 00:31:39:16
the the the sort of super

00:31:40:11 - 00:31:44:08
connectivity of different parts of culture.

00:31:44:08 - 00:31:49:09
So sports, entertainment, music, fashion, tech,

00:31:50:00 - 00:31:53:24
food, news, thought, leadership

00:31:54:28 - 00:31:56:04
and fine art.

00:31:56:04 - 00:32:00:14
And how are all these things coming together in different ways?

00:32:00:26 - 00:32:05:11
And how are artists crossing over and cross connecting in different ways?

00:32:05:11 - 00:32:08:05
And I think we're we're looking to be as

00:32:09:08 - 00:32:12:15
well-rounded in those categories as we can.

00:32:12:24 - 00:32:14:17
We've made a big investment in sports.

00:32:14:17 - 00:32:16:08
We love our sports business.

00:32:16:08 - 00:32:18:11
We're continuing to grow that.

00:32:18:11 - 00:32:20:11
We've made a big investment in music.

00:32:20:11 - 00:32:25:21
I believe music will continue to explode as a global format,

00:32:26:05 - 00:32:28:23
and we're going to continue to invest in music

00:32:29:08 - 00:32:34:19
and opportunities to represent artists around the world.

00:32:34:19 - 00:32:37:01
We've made an investment in fine arts and

00:32:38:15 - 00:32:40:29
I'm not sure that's a giant scalable business,

00:32:41:16 - 00:32:44:09
but I think it's a business that that's going to change,

00:32:44:09 - 00:32:47:12
and I think the fundamental players in that business are going to change.

00:32:47:12 - 00:32:52:13
And I think there's a big opportunity for a company like ours to be much

00:32:52:13 - 00:32:57:12
more influential, influence, inshallah, and additive to an artist's career today.

00:32:58:06 - 00:32:59:13
So that's something,

00:32:59:13 - 00:33:01:00
you know, first of all, it's a passion of mine,

00:33:01:00 - 00:33:03:10
but also I think it's a passion of many people's.

00:33:03:10 - 00:33:06:22
And I think you're finding that sports community loves art

00:33:06:22 - 00:33:11:00
and you're seeing different collaborations between designers and and fine artists,

00:33:11:00 - 00:33:15:01
and you're seeing the tech community looking to really explore art.

00:33:15:01 - 00:33:20:18
And I think there's a bigger opportunity for artists and fine artists

00:33:20:18 - 00:33:24:02
to enhance their brand using different

00:33:24:28 - 00:33:27:19
media partners, and I think

00:33:28:24 - 00:33:30:27
that will drive the value of their work.

00:33:30:27 - 00:33:35:17
Those are some of the sort of ways we're really looking at the world now.

00:33:36:02 - 00:33:40:04
Another big area that we're really focusing on is brands

00:33:40:04 - 00:33:42:16
and how are brands going to play

00:33:43:20 - 00:33:45:25
in the media world

00:33:45:25 - 00:33:49:10
today now that people are sort of moving off

00:33:49:10 - 00:33:53:19
of television, traditional broadcast television, into a streaming world?

00:33:53:19 - 00:33:56:24
So if you're a brand and you're

00:33:57:20 - 00:34:01:16
you're sort of cut out from quality content

00:34:01:16 - 00:34:03:24
that lives in a streaming environment.

00:34:03:24 - 00:34:06:22
So how are you going to engage?

00:34:06:22 - 00:34:11:08
How are you going to get next to that quality content if you're a brand

00:34:11:08 - 00:34:14:24
and you could advertise around succession,

00:34:15:11 - 00:34:18:11
you know, if you were Mercedes Benz and you wanted to advertise,

00:34:18:11 - 00:34:21:00
you'd like to advertise around succession, but you can't.

00:34:21:19 - 00:34:24:16
That's in the garden of HBO and there's no room for you.

00:34:24:26 - 00:34:28:09
So how are brands going to start to play in

00:34:28:09 - 00:34:31:29
and around the most premium content?

00:34:32:06 - 00:34:35:29
And I think if we can figure that out, I'm not telling you I have an answer,

00:34:35:29 - 00:34:39:06
but if we can figure that out, I think there's a big, big opportunity

00:34:39:06 - 00:34:43:08
for the brands as well as for the clients who want to create content

00:34:43:08 - 00:34:48:07
and want that content to be financed or subsidized by by advertisers.

00:34:49:00 - 00:34:52:11
Is there a world where your biggest competitors are C

00:34:53:06 - 00:34:55:20
and E, but Netflix and others?

00:34:56:20 - 00:34:58:04
Well, I and honestly, I

00:34:58:04 - 00:35:03:03
I've said that to my competitors and my colleagues for several years,

00:35:03:23 - 00:35:06:22
that our biggest competitors are going to be Netflix and Amazon

00:35:07:03 - 00:35:10:05
because they're going to use their global power to try to suppress

00:35:11:11 - 00:35:13:12
pricing for our clients.

00:35:13:12 - 00:35:17:12
And that rather than, you know, fighting with William Morris over clients,

00:35:17:12 - 00:35:21:05
we should be fighting with Amazon and Netflix

00:35:21:05 - 00:35:24:27
over transparency of data and and pricing.

00:35:26:19 - 00:35:28:15
So if you don't know what, if you don't know

00:35:28:15 - 00:35:31:26
how many people are watching, you don't know how to value the work.

00:35:32:15 - 00:35:38:10
And over time that lack of transparency is going to create a real barrier

00:35:38:10 - 00:35:42:02
to appropriate and fair valuation for our clients.

00:35:42:17 - 00:35:44:29
Interesting and are there

00:35:46:09 - 00:35:49:00
I'm thinking a little bit of the parallels here of the Amazons

00:35:49:00 - 00:35:50:08
in the kind of retail world.

00:35:50:08 - 00:35:53:03
And the minute the Whole Foods acquisition came, suddenly all sorts of

00:35:54:05 - 00:35:57:00
the cat was among the pigeons and all sorts of other entities

00:35:57:00 - 00:35:58:26
who previously wouldn't have collaborated

00:35:58:26 - 00:36:00:27
because they felt there was a greater external

00:36:00:27 - 00:36:05:16
kind of existential threat, that world, all that other types of businesses

00:36:05:25 - 00:36:08:28
that you could see you to teaming up with.

00:36:09:07 - 00:36:11:20
I'm thinking a little bit around India's announcement with

00:36:11:20 - 00:36:15:28
CAA the other week or so that obviously the venture world or

00:36:16:05 - 00:36:21:01
I don't know, but like other other types of entities that in a prior world

00:36:21:04 - 00:36:24:15
would have been maybe not competitors, maybe just sort of slightly different

00:36:24:27 - 00:36:30:06
different swimming lanes that you given what you've just explained of that

00:36:30:14 - 00:36:34:05
who the future threat comes from, that you think about partnering

00:36:34:05 - 00:36:36:05
with in a creative way?

00:36:36:08 - 00:36:39:23
Well, I think, as I just mentioned, I think advertisers are one of those.

00:36:39:23 - 00:36:44:21
Yeah, I think advertisers are an potential partner.

00:36:45:22 - 00:36:49:06
If they could become

00:36:49:17 - 00:36:53:04
if they could understand how, you know, if instead of a 12 minute

00:36:53:04 - 00:36:57:20
ad load on an hour show, you can have a three minute ad load or form an ad load,

00:36:57:20 - 00:37:01:13
but it would really be dynamic and consistent with the product.

00:37:01:26 - 00:37:04:23
Could great product

00:37:04:23 - 00:37:06:25
exist with a four minute ad load?

00:37:06:25 - 00:37:10:06
That was really targeted? I think it could.

00:37:10:06 - 00:37:13:28
So you start to look at those kind of moves, because

00:37:15:18 - 00:37:17:12
what we need is we need

00:37:17:12 - 00:37:22:13
we need honest options to the big streamers. Yes.

00:37:22:18 - 00:37:25:20
I think the other people we should part we can be partnering with are,

00:37:25:22 - 00:37:30:23
you know, the smartest the smartest data providers

00:37:30:23 - 00:37:34:19
so that we can get as close as we can to real data

00:37:34:19 - 00:37:38:22
about what's working on the streamers, that we can understand the value

00:37:38:22 - 00:37:40:05
of what our clients are creating.

00:37:41:29 - 00:37:43:04
And weirdly, I

00:37:43:04 - 00:37:45:08
think there's opportunities with some of the

00:37:46:17 - 00:37:48:16
exist team

00:37:48:17 - 00:37:53:00
in production studios who are, you know, rather than I mean, Warners

00:37:53:00 - 00:37:56:01
has their streaming platform and Disney has

00:37:56:01 - 00:37:59:27
theirs, Comcast is working on theirs.

00:37:59:27 - 00:38:03:17
But other than that, you know, if you're looking at Paramount, Sony,

00:38:04:10 - 00:38:08:16
Lionsgate, MGM, some of these guys, they're they have a tough road to hoe.

00:38:08:16 - 00:38:10:04
And they, you know,

00:38:10:04 - 00:38:13:29
there might be partnerships there which would allow us to really help

00:38:15:00 - 00:38:20:03
drive great content and not be subject to whatever deal

00:38:20:03 - 00:38:23:05
the streamer decides they want to put in front of us.

00:38:24:10 - 00:38:25:11
Fascinating.

00:38:25:11 - 00:38:28:07
I'm I want to turn to questions really shortly

00:38:28:07 - 00:38:31:02
because we've got a few already coming through from from

00:38:32:10 - 00:38:37:05
synthetic media company to Sophie to Darcy to Dave.

00:38:37:05 - 00:38:39:01
There are quite a few coming through,

00:38:39:01 - 00:38:42:16
but just maybe two more from my side, Ashleigh.

00:38:42:24 - 00:38:45:22
We touched on it really briefly in the chat before, but

00:38:46:20 - 00:38:48:06
do you think is having its moment?

00:38:48:06 - 00:38:51:24
It does seem it does seem to be a pretty interesting

00:38:52:09 - 00:38:55:23
kind of convening power, a lot of different trends.

00:38:55:23 - 00:38:57:13
Are you excited about.

00:38:59:07 - 00:39:00:14
I mean, I'm yes.

00:39:00:14 - 00:39:03:00
I love I first of all, I love being here.

00:39:03:00 - 00:39:06:07
It's it's a it's a really nice place to be.

00:39:07:26 - 00:39:10:04
And, yeah, there we're at this.

00:39:10:04 - 00:39:13:11
You know, the music business has really come here

00:39:13:11 - 00:39:17:11
and entertainment is here and streaming giants are here.

00:39:17:11 - 00:39:20:08
And so much of the talent is here.

00:39:20:08 - 00:39:23:21
Our art the art culture is thriving.

00:39:23:21 - 00:39:26:03
The food culture is thriving.

00:39:26:03 - 00:39:28:24
There's a lot going on in L.A., but it's going to be interesting

00:39:28:24 - 00:39:29:26
to see what happens.

00:39:29:26 - 00:39:32:03
You know, how does this pandemic change

00:39:33:02 - 00:39:37:28
our sort of geographical requirement?

00:39:37:28 - 00:39:39:17
You know, do we need to be

00:39:40:21 - 00:39:41:18
somewhere where

00:39:41:18 - 00:39:44:17
things are or can we be everywhere where things are?

00:39:44:27 - 00:39:48:14
You know, I don't really know.

00:39:48:14 - 00:39:49:12
I think it's going to

00:39:49:12 - 00:39:49:18
you know,

00:39:49:18 - 00:39:51:05
I think there's going to be a lot of changes

00:39:51:05 - 00:39:53:12
in those kind of ideas about where you need to be

00:39:53:19 - 00:39:55:25
and then where you need to be in terms of travel,

00:39:55:25 - 00:39:57:26
you know, the idea that you have to go to New York,

00:39:58:16 - 00:40:01:13
you know, four, six, eight times a year if you live in L.A.

00:40:01:13 - 00:40:03:00
just to be part of it.

00:40:03:00 - 00:40:05:03
I don't know what's going to happen with that.

00:40:05:03 - 00:40:07:10
So I think there's a lot of ideas up for

00:40:08:17 - 00:40:11:19
grabs, like the place to be, you know, it turns out the place

00:40:11:19 - 00:40:14:23
to be can kind of be whatever your laptop is and your family is.

00:40:14:23 - 00:40:16:29
So we'll see.

00:40:16:29 - 00:40:20:01
Now, I agree with sadly, the first minute

00:40:20:01 - 00:40:23:21
you're going to be much less rooted in office than we were for sure.

00:40:25:06 - 00:40:25:29
Maybe.

00:40:25:29 - 00:40:28:02
And I can see actually

00:40:28:04 - 00:40:30:27
Karen and I could focus on I'm going to turn over two questions.

00:40:30:27 - 00:40:32:16
But my last one, just

00:40:32:24 - 00:40:35:25
this conversation happened thanks to my brilliant colleague

00:40:35:27 - 00:40:39:28
Tara and Sam Wick, who run, run Zeta Ventures.

00:40:40:15 - 00:40:44:01
Just what was the the story of how you two ventures started?

00:40:44:01 - 00:40:48:02
You guys have invested in some pretty cool companies from left masterclass to

00:40:48:17 - 00:40:50:25
I think you're in Houseparty as well actually like what?

00:40:51:03 - 00:40:54:16
When did it start and why did you why did you create YouTube ventures?

00:40:55:14 - 00:40:58:05
It really started with we were representing this kid

00:40:58:05 - 00:41:01:10
who was a big YouTube star and his name was Fred.

00:41:01:24 - 00:41:05:29
And he did these videos at this crazy kid.

00:41:05:29 - 00:41:08:00
Named very effective videos.

00:41:08:00 - 00:41:12:13
And they were very effective for a certain age group and kids

00:41:12:13 - 00:41:16:07
were consuming like crazy on YouTube.

00:41:16:07 - 00:41:18:21
And I watched, I said, Wow, we should figure out a way

00:41:18:21 - 00:41:19:25
to make a movie with this guy.

00:41:19:25 - 00:41:23:03
So I called my client at the time, Brian Robbins, who is a, you know,

00:41:23:05 - 00:41:27:00
just a brilliant guy who'd spent a lot of his career in kids entertainment.

00:41:27:00 - 00:41:30:18
And I said, Hey, Brian, we represent this kid, Fred, who's on YouTube.

00:41:31:05 - 00:41:33:11
I think we should try to figure out how to make a movie with him.

00:41:33:11 - 00:41:34:23
And he said, Really? I said, Yeah.

00:41:34:23 - 00:41:36:11
He said, Let me ask my kids.

00:41:36:11 - 00:41:38:18
And so he's one of his kids or his friends.

00:41:38:24 - 00:41:41:06
His kids and their friends were over there and he walks over, he goes, Hey,

00:41:41:20 - 00:41:43:08
you guys want to see a Fred movie?

00:41:43:08 - 00:41:44:17
Do you guys want to see a Fred movie?

00:41:44:17 - 00:41:46:12
And they all went tonight.

00:41:46:12 - 00:41:49:13
And so he came back, said, Yeah, we should definitely do something.

00:41:49:13 - 00:41:50:21
He goes, How are we going to raise the money?

00:41:50:21 - 00:41:53:14
I said, Well, why don't we just put up the money ourselves?

00:41:54:02 - 00:41:55:11
And he goes, That sounds crazy.

00:41:55:11 - 00:41:57:01
I said, I know, but I think it's the right idea.

00:41:57:01 - 00:41:58:09
So he put up a lot of the money.

00:41:58:09 - 00:42:01:08
We put up some of the money, and we created this Fred movie,

00:42:01:08 - 00:42:04:09
which we then sold to Nickelodeon for a lot more money.

00:42:04:09 - 00:42:08:19
And then we started making Fred Fred movies, and that led to him

00:42:08:19 - 00:42:12:17
wanting to create this platform called Awesomeness, which became this,

00:42:13:05 - 00:42:16:09
you know, online ad sort of Nickelodeon online,

00:42:16:09 - 00:42:19:14
where we used YouTube as the starting platform and built this

00:42:20:23 - 00:42:21:12
this whole

00:42:21:12 - 00:42:24:19
brand called Awesomeness, which was all about kids content.

00:42:24:22 - 00:42:27:27
We sold that and that became the first sort of UTA venture.

00:42:28:16 - 00:42:33:27
And what we realized is that we live in a very unique universe

00:42:33:27 - 00:42:36:20
where we can sort of marry founders

00:42:37:02 - 00:42:39:17
and ideas to

00:42:40:21 - 00:42:44:10
insights that we have to some clients that we had.

00:42:44:10 - 00:42:47:14
And we can really provide some value and guidance along the way.

00:42:47:28 - 00:42:51:21
And slowly but surely it started with us making very passive investments

00:42:51:21 - 00:42:55:09
in early stage companies, which we've done, and that's been great.

00:42:55:22 - 00:42:56:24
And it's really evolved

00:42:56:24 - 00:43:00:26
now into an environment where we see sort of the overall retail environment

00:43:00:26 - 00:43:06:09
changing so radically and we feel there's huge opportunities for our clients

00:43:06:09 - 00:43:11:11
to build companies and build products and our clients have a real hunger for it.

00:43:11:11 - 00:43:15:00
So we've really we've spent a lot of our time focusing on

00:43:15:00 - 00:43:18:22
how do we work with clients to build a product for their audience.

00:43:19:16 - 00:43:22:14
Now that we have a few founders both on the line

00:43:22:14 - 00:43:25:27
and children's entertainment and obviously a bunch across e-commerce.

00:43:25:27 - 00:43:31:27
So I think there be a few questions that and I do identify identifying

00:43:31:27 - 00:43:36:13
of that young talent feels like it's harking back to the beginning of the

00:43:36:29 - 00:43:39:13
days of 91 of I think it was

00:43:40:23 - 00:43:44:14
Coen brothers, Wes Anderson No, no, you had as well.

00:43:44:15 - 00:43:46:12
Like they were all they like the

00:43:46:12 - 00:43:49:22
the ethos of when you when you started it was to back young.

00:43:49:23 - 00:43:51:05
I think it's the first time

00:43:51:05 - 00:43:55:05
anyone's ever put the Coen brothers, Wes Anderson and Fred in the same set.

00:43:55:17 - 00:43:58:18
So well done.

00:43:59:03 - 00:44:04:09
It's building the next generation.

00:44:04:09 - 00:44:08:15
And now turning over to Q&A, it

00:44:11:17 - 00:44:13:23
just so happens the superstar founder in Toronto

00:44:14:06 - 00:44:17:19
building a company is a synthetic speech comedian doing

00:44:17:19 - 00:44:20:24
a bunch of stuff, but so have so sorry I've done your introduction.

00:44:20:24 - 00:44:23:11
You can just ask the question, but over to you, buddy.

00:44:24:02 - 00:44:25:16
Thanks. First, thanks for.

00:44:25:16 - 00:44:27:20
The insights for me. Really appreciate them.

00:44:28:22 - 00:44:32:10
Like Spencer mentioned earlier in the synthetic speech and media space

00:44:32:10 - 00:44:34:17
so I and we're creativity meets

00:44:35:12 - 00:44:37:17
and naturally whatever audiences so.

00:44:37:19 - 00:44:38:10
It's entertainment.

00:44:39:10 - 00:44:39:23
But what I've

00:44:39:23 - 00:44:43:11
noticed is like like you mentioned the Fred story right now

00:44:43:11 - 00:44:47:07
a lot of entertainment is based off of gut instincts.

00:44:47:07 - 00:44:50:21
So you have this large bet that you place on this large project

00:44:51:03 - 00:44:54:17
and it's very different than what startups or tech these were used to,

00:44:54:24 - 00:44:57:22
where it's more, you know, Snapchat builds B one, B

00:44:57:22 - 00:45:00:28
1.1, 1.2, etc..

00:45:00:28 - 00:45:03:20
So do you have like I guess a two part question

00:45:04:27 - 00:45:06:15
what do tech startups need to do to fit.

00:45:06:15 - 00:45:07:15
Into.

00:45:07:20 - 00:45:11:09
The process that's already been in place for many decades with entertainment,

00:45:11:09 - 00:45:14:22
where you have these guts and instincts and long term projects

00:45:15:12 - 00:45:18:15
where there's a lot like dependent on on the on it.

00:45:19:03 - 00:45:22:15
I think it's the second part question is, do you think that process is changing to

00:45:22:29 - 00:45:24:24
something that's more iterative or something

00:45:24:24 - 00:45:28:16
that's not more like, let's put all of our eggs in one basket and hope it works

00:45:28:27 - 00:45:33:10
more than like it's like do like a ten minute thing first and etc.

00:45:33:10 - 00:45:36:00
It's build on top of it.

00:45:36:00 - 00:45:37:21
Well, I mean, first of all,

00:45:39:06 - 00:45:42:06
it's not as simple as sure, kid, go make the movie.

00:45:42:06 - 00:45:43:13
Here's $100 million.

00:45:43:13 - 00:45:48:04
There is and many times an endless process

00:45:48:04 - 00:45:50:25
of working on a script, working on a script, working on

00:45:52:00 - 00:45:53:05
casting, working on casting.

00:45:53:05 - 00:45:56:11
There's a lot of process that goes into it, but there is

00:45:56:15 - 00:45:58:25
there is that moment where you look in someone's eyes

00:45:58:25 - 00:46:00:06
and you believe that they're going

00:46:00:06 - 00:46:03:12
to be able to deliver the movie they say they're going to deliver.

00:46:03:12 - 00:46:06:26
And you do sort of sail off together.

00:46:07:06 - 00:46:10:04
I think it's important for you know, because what's so interesting

00:46:10:04 - 00:46:15:18
is, is the two there's always there's been a sort of lack of trust

00:46:15:18 - 00:46:20:09
and a somewhat a lack of respect between the two groups.

00:46:20:09 - 00:46:24:04
And I think it's important that that each party understand the other

00:46:24:04 - 00:46:27:06
and have respect for what they've done.

00:46:27:06 - 00:46:30:27
And the idea that, boy, if you guys just used more data and

00:46:31:29 - 00:46:34:10
we're smarter the way we are, it would work better.

00:46:34:22 - 00:46:39:06
Or if you being counters stopped being so procedural and had more instinct,

00:46:39:06 - 00:46:39:28
it would be.

00:46:39:28 - 00:46:44:00
And I think if we both sort of drop what we think we know about the other,

00:46:44:00 - 00:46:47:10
there would be a probably a better process.

00:46:48:12 - 00:46:53:01
Having said that, studios and content companies and creators

00:46:53:13 - 00:46:56:03
do rely now more on data

00:46:56:03 - 00:47:01:04
and understanding the audience than they ever have before.

00:47:01:15 - 00:47:05:14
Whether or not that's resulting in great product, I can't really tell you.

00:47:06:26 - 00:47:09:24
The only thing what Netflix shows me as I

00:47:09:24 - 00:47:12:10
look at the ocean of content that they provide

00:47:12:24 - 00:47:16:04
is that it's really, really hard to make good stuff consistently.

00:47:16:15 - 00:47:21:09
And, you know, the more you spend time flipping around on Netflix, the

00:47:21:09 - 00:47:22:13
more you appreciate

00:47:23:12 - 00:47:27:00
how great, great stuff is.

00:47:27:10 - 00:47:32:06
So somewhere in that sort of math and magic is is a journey

00:47:32:06 - 00:47:37:12
where we can actually find and do great things.

00:47:37:12 - 00:47:41:06
Thank you for that knowledge that that founder of business Coca-Cola, which

00:47:41:06 - 00:47:45:05
is based in between London and Nairobi, which is a edutainment business.

00:47:45:05 - 00:47:48:09
So creating a character called Super Cinema,

00:47:48:09 - 00:47:50:24
which is a STEM empowered

00:47:51:14 - 00:47:55:20
female hero who is actually releasing some stuff later this year.

00:47:55:20 - 00:47:57:18
So amazing.

00:47:57:29 - 00:48:01:15
Yeah, it's a a the intersection of content and

00:48:02:15 - 00:48:04:16
and entertainment and education.

00:48:04:16 - 00:48:05:11
Over to you.

00:48:05:27 - 00:48:06:28
Thank you, Spencer.

00:48:06:28 - 00:48:11:08
Jeremy, really enjoyed listening to the conversation.

00:48:12:19 - 00:48:15:09
As Spencer mentioned, we're just about to launch

00:48:15:09 - 00:48:18:07
an African animated series for kids,

00:48:19:00 - 00:48:22:28
which is kind of the first of its kind and couldn't happen at a better moment.

00:48:22:28 - 00:48:28:17
We've been seeing loads of moments and with the big US broadcasters and

00:48:29:16 - 00:48:32:10
I actually was really touched by how you answered

00:48:32:10 - 00:48:37:22
that Spencer's question about diversity and what you've done within your company.

00:48:37:22 - 00:48:41:19
And it sounded very authentic and like humbling.

00:48:41:19 - 00:48:46:24
You really listened then to your employees and how they wanted to be listened and.

00:48:46:24 - 00:48:51:18
So I wanted to ask you if you think that we are going to look forward

00:48:51:18 - 00:48:54:20
to a new era of diversity

00:48:54:20 - 00:48:58:16
and new stories being represented in media and Hollywood?

00:48:58:20 - 00:49:01:05
Or if this is just the short term trend,

00:49:01:20 - 00:49:03:26
that is not really going to change much.

00:49:05:09 - 00:49:08:00
I'd love your thoughts on that and how you're seeing the industry

00:49:08:00 - 00:49:11:11
really reacting to this and taking long term

00:49:12:14 - 00:49:15:13
measures, given even the demand of this type of

00:49:16:19 - 00:49:17:06
today.

00:49:17:06 - 00:49:20:27
I actually do believe we're going to see significant change.

00:49:21:25 - 00:49:26:14
I believe that the MeToo movement of what was it two years ago,

00:49:26:14 - 00:49:30:17
three years ago, really created significant change.

00:49:30:29 - 00:49:35:02
I think the way we think about our interact

00:49:36:13 - 00:49:40:17
with our female colleagues is very different.

00:49:40:17 - 00:49:42:28
I think the way we

00:49:42:28 - 00:49:46:04
think about opportunities, the way we think about content

00:49:46:04 - 00:49:50:23
has changed significantly as a result of the MeToo movement.

00:49:50:23 - 00:49:53:27
And I think this BLM movement

00:49:53:27 - 00:49:57:15
or time is going to significantly

00:49:58:00 - 00:50:01:02
and permanently alter

00:50:01:02 - 00:50:03:18
the landscape of the entertainment business.

00:50:03:29 - 00:50:07:22
Do I think it'll be as urgent and as

00:50:09:00 - 00:50:12:03
dynamic as it has been?

00:50:12:13 - 00:50:15:26
Perhaps not as urgent, but I think it's going to be a consistent

00:50:15:26 - 00:50:19:09
and powerful change that people are excited about.

00:50:19:13 - 00:50:21:12
I'm excited about it.

00:50:21:12 - 00:50:22:08
I really am.

00:50:22:08 - 00:50:26:04
I mean, I hear about your your project

00:50:26:04 - 00:50:29:11
and I'm I'm I'm more excited to see that

00:50:29:16 - 00:50:32:29
than I am something I've seen over and over and over again.

00:50:33:10 - 00:50:34:16
And I think we're excited

00:50:34:16 - 00:50:38:23
about about the world and we're excited about world voices.

00:50:38:23 - 00:50:42:23
And, you know, we just we represent Burna Boy who just won,

00:50:42:23 - 00:50:46:10
you know, Best New International artist two nights ago at the beat.

00:50:46:17 - 00:50:49:20
So I'm I'm excited about that and

00:50:51:17 - 00:50:53:19
we just want better stuff and better stuff

00:50:53:19 - 00:50:57:28
comes from all over the world and all kinds of different voices.

00:50:57:28 - 00:50:59:18
And that's what I'm excited about.

00:50:59:18 - 00:51:02:20
And I think I think the entertainment industry recognizes that

00:51:02:20 - 00:51:05:16
and we're ready for positive change.

00:51:06:10 - 00:51:07:22
Thank you, Jeremy.

00:51:07:22 - 00:51:10:03
We'll go to Africa next and get

00:51:10:22 - 00:51:13:27
I wouldn't be surprised if you and he have met, Fredricka, with chairman

00:51:13:27 - 00:51:18:08
and CEO of Sony Music Entertainment and he's now he's now CEO of Auto

00:51:18:08 - 00:51:22:26
Scout 24, which is a multi-billion dollar marketplace for new and used cars.

00:51:23:07 - 00:51:24:01
Thanks, Spencer.

00:51:24:01 - 00:51:26:23
Jeremy, super interesting to listen to your story.

00:51:26:23 - 00:51:28:23
And I'm trying to understand what.

00:51:28:23 - 00:51:31:11
Tech does to your business. Obviously.

00:51:31:11 - 00:51:33:26
And you mentioned that yourself.

00:51:33:26 - 00:51:36:10
Some. 30 years ago.

00:51:36:10 - 00:51:41:07
I mean, the way media music was consumed is totally different.

00:51:41:07 - 00:51:42:21
It has changed beyond

00:51:44:02 - 00:51:47:04
imagination, actually, and I think it has a long way to go.

00:51:47:19 - 00:51:51:04
So the way music is consumed, media is enjoyed,

00:51:51:23 - 00:51:56:13
monetized, distributed, shared is completely different to 30 years ago.

00:51:56:13 - 00:51:57:20
But to the. Core of.

00:51:57:20 - 00:52:02:19
What an agent does, which is representing talent, creative talent,

00:52:03:06 - 00:52:07:24
amplifying artistry, matchmaking, bringing

00:52:07:28 - 00:52:12:23
creativity to life, is that ever going to be challenged by technology?

00:52:13:23 - 00:52:14:08
That's

00:52:15:22 - 00:52:18:12
I really you know, I hope not.

00:52:18:27 - 00:52:23:01
Sometimes, you know, someone will say, oh, you guys are all going to be awesome.

00:52:23:02 - 00:52:25:14
You know, the agents are going to be automated out of the business.

00:52:25:14 - 00:52:30:21
There's going to be direct connectivity between artists and producers.

00:52:30:21 - 00:52:31:29
And they want to

00:52:32:19 - 00:52:37:09
they're going to want to connect directly and you're going to be cut out of it.

00:52:37:09 - 00:52:40:11
And people just send offers, you know, via Venmo.

00:52:40:11 - 00:52:43:12
And I just don't you know, I don't believe that.

00:52:43:12 - 00:52:48:05
I believe having grown up with an artist and growing up with artists my whole life,

00:52:48:05 - 00:52:53:28
I think I think representing an artist and helping them navigate through

00:52:55:12 - 00:52:56:12
the journey to

00:52:56:12 - 00:53:01:17
make the make and get distributed, the work they want to make is is a very

00:53:01:28 - 00:53:05:10
is a very powerful resource for artists

00:53:05:22 - 00:53:10:16
and and honestly, a no well, a noble occupation.

00:53:10:16 - 00:53:12:28
That's what always bugs me about, you know, when people say,

00:53:12:28 - 00:53:16:07
oh, what are you, an agent like Ari Gold and that show Entourage.

00:53:16:07 - 00:53:21:12
And it's to me, it strips all the nobility out of what I think we do.

00:53:21:12 - 00:53:22:14
And I know to talk about

00:53:22:14 - 00:53:25:18
agents and nobility in the same word, people are like, Are you kidding me?

00:53:25:18 - 00:53:29:14
But look, I really think there's an incredible nobility to be an artist.

00:53:29:20 - 00:53:33:03
I mean, if you wake up today and say, I've decided

00:53:33:20 - 00:53:37:09
I really want to be a director or I really want to be a painter,

00:53:37:09 - 00:53:41:05
or I really want to be a singer or I want to want to be a poet.

00:53:41:20 - 00:53:44:10
I mean, people, you know, that's like you have a better odds

00:53:44:10 - 00:53:50:03
of being an astronaut, yet people do it every single day all over the world.

00:53:50:03 - 00:53:53:17
And that's a noble ambition.

00:53:53:17 - 00:53:55:14
So the people who wake up every day and say, I'm

00:53:55:14 - 00:53:59:21
going to be a part of those lives and I'm going to aid in that journey.

00:53:59:21 - 00:54:01:22
I think there's a nobility in that as well.

00:54:02:05 - 00:54:06:06
You know, and I wake up every day, I see I have hundreds of colleagues were so

00:54:06:06 - 00:54:06:26
you know,

00:54:06:27 - 00:54:09:22
just yesterday I was on the phone with one of my one of my colleagues, and

00:54:09:22 - 00:54:13:14
she was telling me about this incredible young artist that you read script.

00:54:13:14 - 00:54:16:23
And she's so excited about it and the story.

00:54:16:23 - 00:54:22:21
And and this is this is an artist who's not made a five sense.

00:54:22:21 - 00:54:23:17
But the passion

00:54:23:17 - 00:54:27:11
she has for the journey that she's on with this artist is very real.

00:54:27:18 - 00:54:30:26
And I don't think that can be automated out of the system.

00:54:31:14 - 00:54:33:19
And I think if it does, everybody will lose.

00:54:35:08 - 00:54:37:27
I think that would be a crying shame.

00:54:38:06 - 00:54:40:21
Darcy is a general partner at Andriessen and he focuses on

00:54:41:00 - 00:54:43:18
consumer tech, among other things, but market places as well.

00:54:43:27 - 00:54:46:04
Hey there. Hey, Jeremy, really nice to meet you.

00:54:46:04 - 00:54:49:12
And so the question I actually want to ask you is we talk a lot.

00:54:49:12 - 00:54:51:12
About, like, tech. Talent and like the war for talent.

00:54:51:12 - 00:54:52:21
In Silicon Valley.

00:54:52:21 - 00:54:55:08
And the thing I'd love your perspective on is like what L.A.

00:54:55:08 - 00:54:56:26
or the entertainment world or I.

00:54:56:26 - 00:54:59:04
Guess to you and you specifically understand about talent and.

00:54:59:12 - 00:55:01:02
Not just like creative talent or celebrities.

00:55:01:02 - 00:55:04:05
But just working with and finding like supremely talented people in general.

00:55:04:16 - 00:55:08:02
That Silicon Valley or the tech world or the business world in general.

00:55:08:02 - 00:55:09:07
Maybe doesn't get.

00:55:09:07 - 00:55:12:10
And also, conversely, if there's anything that you think that tech and business

00:55:12:10 - 00:55:15:11
world gets, that the entertainment world doesn't get that talent.

00:55:15:19 - 00:55:20:15
I think that talent in Silicon Valley is both wildly

00:55:20:15 - 00:55:24:29
appreciated and wildly sort of weirdly underrepresented.

00:55:25:14 - 00:55:28:09
I always thought there would be an amazing opportunity to start

00:55:28:09 - 00:55:30:24
an agency representing the most talented

00:55:31:21 - 00:55:35:19
engineers and creators and working with them out of college

00:55:35:19 - 00:55:39:21
so that rather than the buyers doing the hunting

00:55:40:04 - 00:55:43:07
as recruiters, that we would be the agents helping people

00:55:43:07 - 00:55:45:29
discern and decide on the best opportunities.

00:55:46:20 - 00:55:48:13
I think that money still has

00:55:49:20 - 00:55:51:27
a tremendous amount of power

00:55:52:02 - 00:55:55:27
up there and power to decide what are the best ideas.

00:55:56:16 - 00:56:00:19
And I think sometimes what agents can help do is bring great ideas to the fore

00:56:01:06 - 00:56:06:16
and help develop a marketplace for things that might not be recognized as readily.

00:56:06:17 - 00:56:08:20
And I think that's what part of what we do is

00:56:08:20 - 00:56:12:13
we can we spot talent and help develop talent and help

00:56:12:24 - 00:56:16:13
create the marketplace where the market might not exist.

00:56:18:08 - 00:56:20:15
And the second question is, what is tech do well?

00:56:20:16 - 00:56:23:08
I think tech has incredible discipline

00:56:23:08 - 00:56:25:13
and understanding around the value of equity,

00:56:25:25 - 00:56:30:03
which our clients have still which which our ecosystem

00:56:30:03 - 00:56:33:21
still doesn't thoroughly embrace as they should.

00:56:34:09 - 00:56:38:02
And a lot of that has to do with because the accounting from our

00:56:38:19 - 00:56:41:07
our partner, our

00:56:41:19 - 00:56:44:26
our financiers and studios has always been so crooked

00:56:45:28 - 00:56:47:15
that equity

00:56:47:15 - 00:56:50:29
has always felt more like a pipe dream and less like a reality.

00:56:50:29 - 00:56:54:21
So you guys have built an equity based culture, which I think is very powerful,

00:56:54:29 - 00:56:58:07
and it's been more challenging for us to create that kind of culture down here.

00:56:59:07 - 00:57:00:24
Sophie

00:57:01:22 - 00:57:05:04
I think you should be unmuted, but as the co-founder and CEO of Lisa,

00:57:05:04 - 00:57:09:01
which is a streaming shopping plug in for ecommerce, I believe,

00:57:09:01 - 00:57:11:27
and so far we haven't met. But nice to meet you.

00:57:11:27 - 00:57:13:09
Hi. Yeah, thanks.

00:57:13:09 - 00:57:16:03
Exactly. So, my name's Sophie, founder of Lisa.

00:57:16:03 - 00:57:20:29
We make software which works or sits right at the intersection of entertainment.

00:57:21:22 - 00:57:24:15
We call it livestream shopping or life video commerce.

00:57:25:05 - 00:57:26:27
And Jeremy, I actually have two questions.

00:57:26:27 - 00:57:29:18
Mindful of your time while trying to keep it really short.

00:57:29:28 - 00:57:32:09
The first one, you kind of touched on it earlier.

00:57:32:10 - 00:57:36:15
Do you see these kind of blended experiences like

00:57:36:20 - 00:57:40:21
livestream shopping or social commerce on the rise in the U.S.?

00:57:40:21 - 00:57:43:20
Do you think they have potential there to be successful?

00:57:44:04 - 00:57:48:02
And the second part of the question, given the current cultural discussions

00:57:48:02 - 00:57:51:16
that we're having, what is your personal observation

00:57:51:16 - 00:57:54:25
on especially brands, how willing, let's say,

00:57:54:25 - 00:57:57:16
they are, to get out in front of live audiences?

00:57:57:16 - 00:57:59:23
For example, a livestream

00:57:59:23 - 00:58:02:12
and show themselves almost naked, basically

00:58:02:12 - 00:58:04:19
because of the types of questions they might be getting,

00:58:04:19 - 00:58:07:15
the types of challenges they might be getting by the audience.

00:58:08:03 - 00:58:12:21
I actually think the livestream shopping opportunity is very

00:58:14:08 - 00:58:16:15
there's a I feel like there's a big opportunity.

00:58:16:15 - 00:58:17:23
I think it is on the rise.

00:58:17:23 - 00:58:19:10
I think our talent are excited

00:58:19:10 - 00:58:22:01
about those kind of opportunities to connect directly

00:58:22:17 - 00:58:26:23
and in real time with an audience around a product that they're passionate about.

00:58:27:09 - 00:58:29:17
And I think we're seeing more and more of that

00:58:30:21 - 00:58:33:21
as far as the live stream,

00:58:35:01 - 00:58:35:23
as far as client.

00:58:35:23 - 00:58:38:13
I mean, what we've seen during this, during

00:58:39:10 - 00:58:42:03
COVID is a real appetite

00:58:42:04 - 00:58:43:11
for our clients

00:58:43:11 - 00:58:47:07
to do livestream performances now that they're not quite as naked that way

00:58:47:07 - 00:58:51:16
because there's a pretty significant audience there at the at at that moment.

00:58:51:29 - 00:58:55:28
But they have been and we've put together a number of everything from.

00:58:56:11 - 00:58:59:07
And I hope I'm answering the question you're asking.

00:58:59:19 - 00:59:02:19
But, you know, we put together Kaskade, who did a livestream

00:59:02:19 - 00:59:05:20
from the rim of the Grand Canyon.

00:59:06:00 - 00:59:10:22
We put together an incredible party for Offset and a bunch of his friends

00:59:10:22 - 00:59:15:14
as a livestream event and the brands are excited to participate in those things.

00:59:16:02 - 00:59:18:25
If that's the answer, the question you're asking, I think you're going

00:59:19:01 - 00:59:22:18
we're going to what what COVID has done is create this livestream

00:59:23:15 - 00:59:27:23
moment where people are they want something that feels live and different

00:59:27:23 - 00:59:32:12
and now and the artists are dying to connect with their audience.

00:59:33:16 - 00:59:33:28
Thank you.

00:59:33:28 - 00:59:36:17
You know, we're definitely seeing exactly that happening.

00:59:36:17 - 00:59:38:27
At the same time, we have some brands

00:59:38:27 - 00:59:42:19
that are also scared to get into it, like open public discussion

00:59:42:19 - 00:59:45:20
that maybe they can't control as much as pre-produced

00:59:45:20 - 00:59:48:28
content was just interesting to hear your take.

00:59:48:29 - 00:59:50:13
Thank you very, very much.

00:59:50:13 - 00:59:51:15
Sure thing. More.

00:59:51:15 - 00:59:52:18
This has been

00:59:53:03 - 00:59:55:12
a manifestation of the unexpected of lockdown,

00:59:55:12 - 00:59:58:08
of being able to speak to someone like you, Jeremy

00:59:58:08 - 01:00:00:10
is a privilege.

01:00:00:10 - 01:00:01:03
So thank you.

01:00:01:03 - 01:00:04:04
And really everything you said resonated.

01:00:04:04 - 01:00:06:13
And I am particularly going to take with me

01:00:06:13 - 01:00:09:16
the thought of dropping the baggage of one's own story.

01:00:09:16 - 01:00:11:24
I think it was very profound what you said at the beginning.

01:00:11:24 - 01:00:14:23
So thank you and have a really lovely day

01:00:15:10 - 01:00:17:14
and I hope everyone else does, too.

01:00:18:02 - 01:00:18:19
Thank you.

01:00:18:19 - 01:00:21:16
It was a real pleasure and the questions were great and

01:00:21:28 - 01:00:24:21
thanks for having me.